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Isn't it funny how life throws surprises this way and that? Being a fan for many
years of Eric Fournier and Shaye Saint John, I wrote a review in October 2014 (here)
of the infamous underground DVD The Triggers Compilation. Soon afterwards, Larry
Wessel, via our Severed Cinema boss, Chris, got in touch with me explaining he
was putting a documentary together all about Eric Fournier. He asked if I wished
to be part of it, I sent him a few things. We kept in touch, and some time
later, out popped Eric & Shaye on DVD.
To many, Larry's creations will be rather alarming, but he has been around for
many many years and he experiments and constructs some fantastic works (not just
in films, he has his fingers in other juicy pies it seems). Larry Wessel isn't
dull. His realm of reality is so out of the average box. I had to interview him!
What could I discover in my excursion in Wessel Jungles? Bull fighting,
Satanism, art, music, transvestites, satanic whoopee cushions, and so much
more. So let's knock on the door -- a door which is bulging, it's throbbing as
if it's breathing, almost as if there's so much going on behind it that it
cannot be contained.
Now then, Mr. Wessel, I usually like to start interviews by working the victim
-- I mean, the guest -- gradually with a hello and a thanks. This time, however,
I must leap straight in if you don't mind.
I don’t mind at all. Let’s go for it man!
 You
have as good as captured the mind and the works of underground legend, Eric
Fournier, with your documentary, Eric & Shaye which has just come out. The style
of the film is similar to Eric's works in that it has a lot of random and
chopping crashing about edited scenes which shouldn't but somehow do work
together. Please tell me what attracted you to Eric Fournier and Shaye Saint
John's world?
The Shaye Saint John Triggers cast their spell on me late one night
approximately 16-years ago when I first experienced them on a tiny TV set
perched above the bar at the CIA Club in North Hollywood. I had never seen
anything like them before or since! They were all totally original and extremely
beautiful and overwhelmed me to such a degree that I wanted to see them again
and again.
My introduction
happened around four or five years ago, I think, when me and a work colleague
were surfing YouTube on a boring afternoon. We chanced upon Kitty Candy then
carried on watching many more. He lost interest weeks later, I never lost my
love, I researched deeper. Which Eric Fournier videos totally captivated you
from the start?
Stumpwater Salad, Kitty Candy, Drawing With Shaye,
Halloween Trash, Western Town, BALLOONGOON, Wire Therapy,
Drip Drop Diet, Skin Tape, Hand Thing, Tubing,
TWENTY4SEVEN and Haunted Garage Sale, to name but a few. I really do
love them all. I have watched each and every one of them repeatedly over the
course of many years and I am always discovering something new!
It was surely a
long and gruelling task putting together the documentary and the subject is so
underground that it lives somewhere near the Earth's core. What were the highest
and lowest points of the creation?
The highest points came during the final weeks of editing the film. I’ve found
that this is usually always the case with the documentaries I make. This is when
the film takes on a life of its own. This always gives me a god-like thrill, not
unlike Dr. Frankenstein when he exclaims: “Look! It’s moving…it’s alive…IT’S
ALIVE!” This is what makes creativity so addicting! The low point for me is
when the Grim Reaper arrives.
Did you find
yourself pulled into the mass of emotions coming from most of the people
interviewed? Towards the end there was a feeling of upcoming doom knowing how
Eric's life ended. Of course you sat and worked with the uncut unedited footage
of so many people.
 Yes.
But it was especially difficult for me to deal with Eric’s death. I knew that
this was a very important and necessary aspect of his story but I saved it for
last because in a way I became so close to Eric through working on this film
that I didn’t want to see him die. It also brought back memories of my father, a
good man who also fell into a bottle. My father was 76 when he passed away. Eric
hit the bottle harder. Eric never made it to his 43rd Birthday. I think that his
room mates, both Jim Faust and Dave Gardener, did an exemplary job of describing
exactly what happened at the end of Eric Fournier’s short life.
It's wonderful how so
many hours of images and knowledge was shrunken to such a compelling piece of
art. Speaking of the tossed aside footage, how hard was it to choose what went
into the finished work (I'm not bitter about my interview being thrown down and
kicked about on the cutting room floor... honest I ain't bitter...)
When I begin editing a documentary I usually start with 200 to 300 hours of
footage. I watch and listen to all of it and begin the process of keeping what I
like and discarding what I don’t like. Fitting everything together like an
enormous jigsaw puzzle. The strength of a story is everything to me. All the
while I am looking for stories worth telling and stories that when combined with
other stories become a part of the bigger story that I want to tell. This
process takes a long time but is very rewarding when it finally all comes
together. Jay Creepy talking about his love of The Triggers Compilation
lost out to Tanner Toobach covering the same ground. I did need to include an
Exploration of Eric’s Wonderful Website
ShayeSaintJohn.net and I felt that the perfect tour guide for this would be
Mr. Jay Creepy. Your sequence ended up being my Favorite part of
Eric & Shaye. I see
ShayeSaintJohn.net as being Eric Fournier’s Disneyland. To this day I have
never seen a better website. I have spent years travelling through
ShayeSaintJohn.net, this astonishing psycho-geography of Shaye Saint John’s
Personality, an elaborate dark ride labyrinth of secret rooms and shocking
surprises!
 The
website is an assault on all the senses. If you aren't ready for it, or do not
know the world of Shaye, it perhaps can cause premature hair loss. Your film is
like a mellow version of the website. I felt as if I was watching a John Waters
creation which made me feel warm inside. The particular variety of personalities
and views were simply awesome. Where did it all come from? What drove you and
how did you track down so many wonderful folks?
In 2012 I had made a short film about Shaye Saint John called Trigger Happy.
The story was written and performed by Carl Crew. After completing this film and
posting it on YouTube it was clear to me that Trigger Happy was more of a
reflection of Carl Crew than it was of either Shaye Saint John or more
importantly Eric Fournier. That is when I decided to dig deeper and do more
research. I created a Facebook Fan Page for
Eric & Shaye and began inviting all of the fans I found on the internet
to press the “like” button on this page. I found Eric’s roommate Jim Faust on
Facebook and soon after that I conducted my first interview with Jim. Mr. Faust
introduced me to filmmaker Doug Waugh who created Shaye St. John's Video
House Tour. My Assistant Caroline Wilson had corresponded with Eric’s
roommate, David Gardener, which resulted in my visit with Dave at Shaye’s
“Compound.” Carl Crew introduced me to four people who Co-Star in
Eric & Shaye -- Darwin Flores, who
collaborated on such Masterpieces as Kitty Candy and Fireworks.
Daisy Janell Garcia who co-stars in Halloween Trash, Becca Fierro who
describes her encounters with both Eric Fournier and Shaye Saint John and Robert
“Corpsy” Rhine who interviewed Shaye Saint John at the CIA for Girls and Corpses
Magazine. Caroline Wilson also introduced me to Artist Tony Chiodo who created
the beautiful black and white artwork for the
Eric & Shaye DVD disc and the t-shirt / flipside of the Postcard. She
also introduced me to Aylöfft Olive who created the Shaye Saint John Mii and
Narcissister, who reveals in
Eric & Shaye the origins of Shaye’s plasti-personalities mask! All of
the other co-stars who appear in
Eric & Shaye, I found and corresponded with on the internet during my
research.
Other than
myself, how many of the stars have you kept in touch with?
Everyone except Carl Crew. I am no longer speaking with him.
 Iconoclast!!!
Whoa, what a blast! Larry, you have to go into this with me. Again, what drew
you to the subject? In fact, tell me anything at all!! How long did it take?
What emotions curdled around you? Please drop as much knowledge as possible.
In June of 2004 I
received an email from Boyd Rice, he wrote, “What about making a documentary
about ME?” I wrote back and told him that I would love to shoot a
documentary about him. Boyd was a fan of Larry Wessel’s Taurobolium, my
Tijuana bullfighting documentary, and I had previously filmed Boyd twice before.
Once in 2000 in Boulder, Colorado for a documentary about collectors that I
started shooting. I also shot a performance of Boyd Rice/NON with Death In June
at The Key Club in West Hollywood March 25th, 2002. In this email that I
received from Boyd he wrote that he was going to be returning to The Key Club to
perform with Death in June on June 24, 2004 and he suggested that I interview
Douglas P. because this was going to be the last tour that Boyd would be doing
with Death in June. Douglas gave me a great interview! At his hotel room,
donning his creepy Death In June mask, Douglas told me wild stories about his
adventures on tour with Boyd all over Europe. Just before shooting their return
engagement at The Key Club, a group of protesters showed up with picket signs
that read, “STOP NAZI MUSIC” and “BOYD RICE IS A NAZI THROUGH AND
THROUGH”. Boyd came out of the club and confronted the protesters and they
didn’t even recognize the man they we’re protesting! Of course my video camera
was rolling the whole time! This was the beginning of Iconoclast, and
very typically the way I begin all of my documentaries, by just pushing the red
record button on my video camera and letting it roll. I made several trips to
Denver to videotape Boyd at home and at Tiki Boyd’s (his local watering hole
that he designed and held court in). Boyd made several trips to Hollywood where
he would stay with his friend and I would continue videotaping his story there.
Besides all of the hours I spent interviewing Boyd, I interviewed over 40 of his
friends and associates, travelling back and forth to Denver, Portland,
Albuquerque, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, and Lemon Grove.
Friends of mine also chipped in and shot footage for Iconoclast in Sintra
(Portugal), Belgium, Australia, London, and at the lecture Boyd gave at The
Massachusetts Institute of Technology!! Of the forty plus people I filmed,
thirty-six made the final cut! Besides Boyd, these people represent a virtual
“who’s who” of our underground culture, including film directors, Ray Dennis
Steckler and Allison Anders, artists Beth Moore-Love, Coop, Jeffrey Vallance and
Johanna Went, DJ Rodney Bingenheimer, televangelist and exorcist, Bob Larson,
musicians Robert Turman (NON), Z’EV, Douglas P. (Death In June), Rozz Williams
(Christian Death), Don Bolles, (The Germs), Robert “El Vez” Lopez, Matt Skiba
(Alkaline Trio), Gidget Gein (Marilyn Manson and The Spooky Kids), The Church of
Satan’s Blanche Barton and Anton LaVey’s grandson, Stanton LaVey, co-editor and
co-writer (with Boyd) of Incredibly Strange Films, Jim Morton, Feral House
Publisher and writer, Adam Parfrey and even Boyd’s high school classmates and
childhood friends! Iconoclast took approximately seven years to complete,
having its world première in Los Angeles at Quentin Tarantino’s New Beverly
Cinema in 2010. As far as I know, Mute Records still has plans for the release
of a one and a half hour version of my Iconoclast. My original 3 hour 53
minute Iconoclast 3-Disc DVD Director's Cut is not currently available.
The information I provided you here about Iconoclast is from a great
interview that Kent Adamson did with me back in 2011. (Here
is the link if you want to read more.)
I didn't realise you'd
worked alongside the unforgettable and in-yer-face, Goddess Bunny before. What
is it like sharing the world with such a wonderful person?
The Goddess Bunny a.k.a. La Morsa a.k.a. Sandie Crisp is Absolutely Fabulous! I
first met her many years ago when she shared an apartment with Glen Meadmore. We
hit it off immediately and I invited her to star in Sugar and Spice, my
documentary that invites you to cross over the gender line into the fascinating
world of drag queens, transexuals and transvestites!
 Filmwise,
where did it all begin? What was born the moment you used your very first
camera?
My love for Cinema began at a very early age. My parents were both Cinefiles.
Our religion was cinema, and our church was always the darkened interior of a
movie theater! One magical evening, my parents took me to see Fantasia on
the big screen, and the night on Bald Mountain sequence made a lasting impact on
me! When I was eleven-years-old I purchased my first Super 8mm movie camera with
money I made delivering newspapers on my Schwinn Stingray bicycle. I was heavily
influenced by horror films at the time and began shooting my own scary films.
The very first one was called The Black Glove, and depicted an old man
being stalked by a knife wielding psychopath.
I’ve had a browse around your IMDb CV (here),
you're a blooming workhorse! You direct, you edit and you produce your works?
Don't you trust anybody else? Or do you prefer to feed and change your own
babies?
I always produce, direct and edit my films. And yes, they are all my
precious little duck babies! That being said, I am extremely grateful that
Eric & Shaye is chock-full of talented writers, animators, artists,
musicians, composers, photographers and filmmakers, all of whose creative
contributions to
Eric & Shaye are phenomenal. I could have never made this film without
their enormous help!!
Okay, I was
caught up by the fact you're also credited as being a monster in the old Doug
McClure starring thingy, Humanoids From the Deep. Is this real?
I wasn’t a monster per se. I actually played the role of a villager who clobbers
an attacking Humanoid over the head with a four by four. And my exciting scene
in this Roger Corman produced film made the final cut! There was a period of
time when I did a lot of extra work and you can see close-ups of me also in
Terry Gilliam’s Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, Paul Thomas Anderson’s
Magnolia and Quentin Tarantino’s Jackie Brown.
 The Unpop Art
movement? Please pretend I don't know a thing about this (erm...) and explain
all.
The Unpop Art Movement was founded in 2003 by Boyd Rice, Brian Clark and Shaun
Partridge. It’s other members at the time included: Jim Goad, Adam Parfrey,
Larry Wessel, Lorin Partridge, Nick Bougas, Beth Love, Gidget Gein and Charles
Krafft. It has been described by Brian Clark, the movement’s “Minister of
UnPropaganda” as follows: Unpop Art is any form of art, music, writing or film
which has as its conceptual basis, the fusion of unpopular, offensive,
disturbing or otherwise frowned-upon ideas with fun, yummy, pop-art
sensibilities, aesthetics or techniques. It’s a modernization of the age-old
alchemical concept of blending polar opposites; in this case, of combining
unpleasant ideas with innocuous pop-culture fun. Good Unpop ArtT should, in
theory, be upsetting and fun at the same time, and -- like pop art or corporate
advertising -- ideally it should operate on a level of emotional immediacy
that’s universally understood (most often via symbolism, but not always). At
some point (I forgot when and I couldn't really care less!) I was
ex-communicated from this group. The only Unpop Artist I continue to communicate
with is Charles Krafft on Facebook.
 I'm quite
stunned the group would remove you. Closed minds pretending to be otherwise? Who
knows? Whilst this interview has been going, I am swept up by so many names whom
have been in your life one way or another. I’ll throw two names your way. Can
you catch the names, ball them up, unfold them, and pass them back with an
explanation as to why they are in your life? Salvador Dali and Anton LaVey, eh,
Father Larry?
Though I do appreciate and enjoy the paintings, films, writings, performances
and one of a kind personality of Maestro Salvador Dali, I cannot say that there
is a personal connection. I did however become friends with Anton Szandor LaVey.
When he passed away I was asked by his girl, Friday Blanche Barton, to write a
piece about him for The Church of Satan publication “The Cloven Hoof.”
Larry, is there
a limit? Have you a point where you'll lock and chain the door? I reckon I know
the answer, because you have that deep soul passion and love of cinema so I
cannot imagine something so weird and wild would arrive to you that would make
you go, “Oh my word, no!”
Stanley Kubrick felt that one should always be suspicious of people who have, or
crave, power. He famously said, "Never, ever go near power. Don't become
friends with anyone who has real power. It's dangerous." I greatly admire
the work of investigative journalists who get way too close to power, and
genuinely place their head on a chopping block. I would never do this. I leave
it up to these brave souls to do it for me! Google the name Gary Webb or see the
film Kill the Messenger to get an inkling of what I mean.
 What's a
typical day in the life of Larry Wessel?
I spend the lion’s share of my time as a customer service agent talking on the
telephone with attorneys and their assistants. When I am not doing that I am
either working on my next film, promoting my current film, catching up on my
reading, doing research or spending way too much time on Facebook!
Your world
seems to have touched many, my friend you've seemed to have been around forever
and been witnessed by so many via your art, your words and your films. What
parts of modern culture do you feel have borrowed segments of your own culture?
The impact of my style can be seen everywhere from the advertising campaigns of
Madison Avenue, to the proliferation of reality television.
Random question
-- DVD, VHS or Laser Disc?
DVD. The format one chooses to use to express themselves is really quite
irrelevant. It is only a medium. An artist will always use whatever medium that
is available to him. Did you know that Edvard Munch’s “The Scream” was painted
on a piece of cardboard?
I truly didn't
know that. Let's play a game here. I’m stranded after an apocalypse in a sewer.
There's enough battery left in a portable DVD player I've found. Meanwhile, I've
chanced upon somebody’s complete collection of Larry Wessel creations. The sewer
will flood in about three hours, I've got enough time to watch one, then plan my
exit and survival. Which Larry Wessel disc should I choose that represents
everything the man stood for and believed?
Larry Wessel’s Taurobolium.
Who is the real
Larry Wessel? If I peel you back like an onion, is there yet another identical
Larry Wessel onion underneath?
I am Wessel, the man who knows!
There's so much
more I could ask you. You are a very diverse and one of a kind gentleman. Maybe
one day there'll be a part II to this interview. Until then, thank you so much
for taking the time to be, well, to be Larry Wessel.
Thank you for this great Interview!
Interview with Larry Wessel was conducted by Severed
Cinema writer Jay Creepy. His
works can be found at
WesselMania.net.
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