An Interview with the Don of Self Destruction – White Gardenia!
In recent times there’s been a bloke and his small gang of misfits appearing in one or two of the anthology films released out of the twisted gnarled gates of TetroVideo. The material involves self-mutilation and fetish overtones. This can cause shock, confusion, amusement, and thrills, but understandably becomes the topic of discussions.
I was first introduced to the dark red dripping world of Daniel Valient, a.k.a. White Gardenia back in 2018, with my review of the music video, No Please Not in my Mouth (see review here). Having spoken to the man himself, he sent me his short gem, Blood is Sweeter Than Honey (see review here) and from then came forth a series of S&M clips which I gladly reviewed in two volumes. Meanwhile, White Gardenia appeared in XXX Dark Web (see review here) and totally floored anyone unprepared for such sights. This then continued with a brief section in Vore Gore (see review here) overall promising to be only the start.
Having been a rabid viewer of early experimental clips back as a teen, plus reading about such subjects, I have chanced upon some graphic stuff along my travels. It helped also having known a few masters and mistresses of pain throughout my years; I kind of get the meaning and the direction of the scene. With that in mind, I decided what the underground world needs right now is an interview with the man himself, the Lord of Agony, the Don of Self Destruction, Daniel Valient so many who may be light rabbits caught in the head lights of pain can maybe get an understanding of the moving paintings presented.
Okay, let’s start with the basics. Who or what is White Gardenia?
Well, I think that White Gardenia is a conceptual art project revolving around the twin topics of pain and death. I’m completely opposed to the concept of death, but I’m trying to process and acclimate myself to the concept of pain. And this is a survival mechanism, because to continue life in this universe we’ll have to get used to vast amounts of pain. So, I’m interested in how the human race has instinctively embraced pain in pop culture (horror films, heavy metal, death metal, torture porn, BDSM etcetera…). It’s an interesting psychological trick that the human race employs as a survival mechanism — to try to turn pain into something pleasurable.
So, what are the origins of White Gardenia?
The name “White Gardenia” is a reference to a possibly connected series of serial murders in the 1940’s. The Black Dahlia was the most famous of the “Flower Murders” but it was actually preceded by the “White Gardenia” murder of Ora Murray in 1943. It was kind of the first murder of a new era. And of course, this is directly related to my interest in early twentieth century surrealism because the prime suspect in the “Flower Murders” is George Hodel (who was friends with many of the surrealists including Man Ray). Many people speculate that Hodel was actually committing murders as an artform and mutilating the bodies in tribute to his favourite surrealist artists. For instance, the dismantled body of Elizabeth Short (the Black Dahlia) bears a striking resemblance to Man Ray’s 1929 “White and Black” collage.
There’s an ingredient involving historic sexual murders I guess?
Yes. And again, we see that sexual killers and mutilators are people who have twisted pain and horror into something pleasurable, so that interests me from a psychological perspective.
I assume your affiliation with Domiziano Cristopharo has opened people up to the whole new world that you sit within. Have you had a lot of feedback about your artwork from Tetro?
Yeah, I’ve gotten a lot of nice feedback from people who are affiliated with Domiziano and Tetro Video. They are some of the nicest people.
Ah, speaking of artwork, there’s a lot of classic inspirations within your films that maybe a lot of folks may miss first time ‘round. For instance, I know you find influences from Salvador Dali, old school surrealism, and old crime magazines. Could you elaborate on all this?
Yeah, growing up I was obsessed with the surrealists — Max Ernst, Man Ray, Salvador Dali, and so many others who were affiliated with that movement. Just thinking about this question, I’m realizing how much of their aesthetic has (even unintentionally) filtered down into my artwork. The preoccupations with bodily trauma must have had some effect on me – the sliced eyeball in Bunuel’s Un Chien Andalou, the gashed hand in L’Age D’or, the gashed hand that gains consciousness in Cocteau’s Blood of the Poet. The entire concept of Surrealism came to Guillaume Apollinaire after a severe head injury in WWI. So right from its inception surrealism has been preoccupied with trauma.
Going along the theme of body trauma, would you call your main structure of material a continual experiment in pain and human endurance?
Yeah, I would say so. I wouldn’t say its endurance for me personally, because I really genuinely enjoy cutting myself (laughs). The moments that I am cutting myself are some of the only moments of peace that I get to experience. I have a horrible violent temper and I’m constantly wrestling with obsessive thoughts, and for me personally — I wouldn’t recommend this for anyone else — the best way that I can find peace is to stab myself repeatedly with scissors (laughs) I know it sounds absurd but it’s really relaxing. Because once I start bleeding, the blood pressure and the hypertension almost immediately subside, and the endorphins kick in and I feel a real, almost “spiritual” kind of peace. But yeah, as far as my art is concerned, I am trying to make some kind of statement about endurance and how the human race can endure by befriending the idea of pain.
I’ve been friends with similar ladies and gents in the past who have explained the experience in similar terms, so I get where you’re going with it. Like you said though, it isn’t for everyone just to grab a sharp object and try it though (laughs). So how involved are the other players in your world? Are they willing to go as far?
Yeah, I’ve made self-mutilation clips with Allison, Cherokee and another friend who calls himself Lilith (he appeared in the White Gardenia clip called “…If Scientists“). He is even more into self-mutilation than I am. Allison made several clips where she is cutting her breasts…which were extremely popular with a certain segment of the BDSM and fetish community. I think that she enjoys cutting as much as I do. She enjoys drinking blood more than any other girl I’ve ever met.
Tell us a little bit about Cherokee?
Well, Cherokee is by far the strangest person I have ever met. She seems like such a normal person at first glance, but I wish I could tell you the strange and bizarre things that I have learned about Cherokee over the years. It would absolutely BLOW PEOPLE’S MINDS (laughs). But other than that, she is a great artist and a great singer. Before we met, we were both mutual friends with a guy named Jeff Simson who was in a fairly famous band called Metro Station — a band formed by Miley Cyrus’s brother. He produced an instrumental track for us out of the kindness of his heart and Cherokee sang on it. I think that was the first project that we ever collaborated on even before the mutilation clips. The song was called “Rain” and it’s really great. It’s kind of in the Christian Contemporary genre.
The obvious question I think many will be wondering is have you ever gone too far yourself? Have you ever performed anything which you regret afterwards?
No, not so far… But I’m planning something that I may regret (laughs). It’s a couple years down the road still.
Do you think it’s the beauty of the visuals or the excitement of pain which many are drawn to, because your works do draw crowds? Or just gawkers?
Well I think there is a segment of people who are drawn to the excitement of the pain. But most of the people who go to the gore sites to masturbate are not always excited by our videos. That’s because they are driven by more sadistic impulses. They’ll masturbate to people being cut up or chopped up with a machete, but I think they want the victims to be suffering. I think the fact that we are enjoying the pain is a turn off to many people. But there are also many people who have contacted me to say that our clips have fulfilled their fantasies, and some BDSM/ Fluid Play fans have even contacted us to commission private videos. For a while (especially at the height of Covid) it was becoming a fairly successful side project.
Am I right in thinking there’s an ingredient of humour mixed into some of your films?
Yeah, I think so, although I might call it post-modernism. One of my big influences growing up was Chico Marx. Even as a kid nothing really scared me or bothered me, but the Marx Bros movies came close. Specifically, the scenes where Chico would be playing his piano and then stare into the camera with that evil smile. I think he was an early role model. The fact that he always wore the same hat kind of inspired me to wear a similar hat. And I think I even wanted to be a musician because of Chico.
But humour is, just like horror films or bondage porn, a kind of coping mechanism for dealing with the nightmarish nature of reality. The history of comedy is inextricably linked to the history of tragedy. Even something like a Three Stooges film is sublimating violence and pain and turning it into something enjoyable. So, I think that humour is good in that sense.
But there might be a dark side to comedy and/or post-modernism, because it’s also closely linked to nihilism, and when post-modernism gets too powerful it might have the potential to become dangerous. So, the idea of comedy has always made me nervous in that sense.
I do feel too many people take artists like yourself way too seriously. Have you had a fair bit of negative vibes and feedback fed back to you since you began your quest?
Oh, tons of negative feedback. The negative feedback never ends…
I must say I think I’ve mentioned in a review before that you tend to look eternally pissed off or bewildered. Are you a character on screen? Or is that the real you?
No, you’re right. I am eternally pissed off. As I’ve mentioned I have a horrible temper. I always feel like people should thank me for making self-mutilation movies. If I wasn’t attacking myself, I’d probably be attacking other people.
I’ve reviewed a few of the numerous short fetish films you’ve released, and some are rather varied. Are they all your own personal tastes, or are some more to be seen by fans?
You’re right they are not our own personal tastes. They are totally varied. Some of our porn clips were commissioned by people that I have never even met (although I usually rewrite them a little just to make them more strange or aesthetically interesting).
In one of the reviews I remember saying you both looked a bit uncomfy with one another.
I can say that both me and Allison are into cutting and blood drinking and also into some aspects of BDSM but most of the clips that we have made are completely outside of our own personal interests.
Allison S. in her appearances seems to be unbelievably deep in her fetishes and your work. What’s her story?
Well Allison is one of the most beautiful girls I have ever met – along with Cherokee who is obviously also very beautiful. I sometimes feel bad because for some reason I don’t feel like my camera work has accurately captured how beautiful they really are.
At any rate, I don’t actually have sex because I’ve read multiple scientific studies that have linked excessive sexual activity to increased ageing in male test subjects. And, I don’t want to get old and die. No matter how good the sex is, it’s not worth dying for! I have also read commentaries by Salvador Dali, Alfred Hitchcock, and Nietzsche wherein all three of them suggest that excessive sexual activity can impair creativity. So, I don’t have sex and I definitely don’t masturbate.
However, I did make a rule that if any girl wants to have sex with me, I would have sex with her as long as she lets me film the sexual encounter and use it for art. And so, Allison was one of the girls who volunteered to do this. My friend Bridger (formerly of the Black Metal band Geimhreadh) told me that a girl he knew wanted to fuck me. When he said that she was also willing to let me film it, I immediately agreed but I expected that she would be kind of ugly. I couldn’t believe when it turned out to be Allison – one of the most beautiful girls I have ever seen! And I was blown away by her attitude. She told me that she would be willing to do ANYTHING on tape, that nothing was off the table. And she proved that kind of dedication with her appearance in XXX Dark Web — drinking my blood, putting my severed finger in her mouth, cooking and taking a small bite out of the finger, etcetera. She did all of that without complaining. So, she is an ideal person to collaborate with, and I have a big project coming up later this year where we will be collaborating again. I’ve also documented my first encounter with Allison in a video clip called “white gardenia – how a homemade porno is made” which people can probably find through a Google search.
I think what separates you from many in the field is your ability to draw people in and the sudden shock as to what is happening on the screen. Do you think it would ever be possible to transfer your works and skills into a full-length feature?
Well, I think I would like to try something along the lines of Un Chien D’Andalou which is punctuated with shocking and lurid moments but isn’t necessarily following a standard narrative structure.
We must know all about the time you first linked up with Domiziano Cristopharo. Was it for the music video No Please Not in my Mouth, or was it beforehand?
I was a big fan of the original Guinea Pig series. So, when Unearthed Films revamped the franchise, I was really eager to check it out. And when I finally saw American Guinea Pig: Sacrifice I was literally blown away — partly because it was such a great movie, and partly because in some strange supernatural way, it seemed like it was documenting my life. Because I had mutilated myself countless times in similar ways in a similar bathroom with similar cutting implements. And the fact that the main character in Sacrifice is also named Daniel made it even more jaw-dropping. So, it seemed like there was some strange supernatural connection between myself and this movie. And so, I contacted Poison Rouge through Facebook, and after explaining what a big fan I was, she put me in contact with Domiziano. I sent them some of my music and some of my self-mutilation clips and they kind of zeroed in on that song “No Please Not in my Mouth,” and ultimately agreed to direct a clip using that song as the soundtrack.
But I’m so glad I contacted them. They are two of the nicest and most creative people that I have ever encountered. True artists.
I love the music in that vid, the sheer pure uncut white noise is awesome. Where does White Gardenia draw musical influences from?
Oh, thanks Jay, I really love that song as well. I do listen to a lot of noise and ambient stuff. A lot of times I’ll just listen to white noise coming through my AM radio. It’s actually very relaxing. I also like a lot of older stuff. As I was mentioning earlier, I love Chico Marx. I also really love Pat Boone, both his early stuff from the ‘50s and his more recent “Christian Contemporary” stuff. I love that song “Cherry Pink and Apple Blossom White”
I recall comparing the music to early Anaal Nathrakh as I think that is as beyond the barrier of explosive noise you can go, however, will you ever revive the musical side of White Gardenia and go further into the void?
Yeah, I do like Anaal Nathrakh, especially “Pandemonic Hyperblast.” I would like to do more metal stuff. I love the French Black Metal scene, especially Mütiilation. I love post black metal ambient stuff. Hmmm let’s see, I love Luigi Russolo and Merzbow. I love Oval, I love Masonna… hmmm there’s so much good stuff it’s hard to keep track.
Away from your creations, what elements surround your tastes? I mean, what are your music and film preferences?
As far as films, of course I love Domiziano and all of the other brilliant filmmakers who work with Tetro Video. And of course, I love the surrealists: Jean Cocteau, Dali, Bunuel. I also kind of categorize the Marx Brothers as being part of that broader surrealist tradition. I love silent films, especially the 1916 film Broken Blossoms. And although the broader surrealist movement was basically dead by the mid-1940s there were some later directors who seemed to capture that same kind of energy like Georges Franju and Kenneth Anger — especially Fireworks and My Demon Brother.
I have a complete love affair for old silent films, and along with Pandora’s Box, Lon Chaney classics and such Broken Blossoms is one of my favs. I admit I need to re-watch some Kenneth Angers – I haven’t seen them since I was a teenager, interesting as to how my mid-40s self takes his works in (laughs). Go on, what else?
Hmmm what else? In My Skin by Marina de Van, AI: Artificial Intelligence by Steven Spielberg, Splendor in the Grass by Kazan, Vertigo by Hitchcock, Flower of Flesh and Blood by Hino, various snuff films like Three Guys One Hammer, various Russian Dash Cam Car wreck films, various Tragedy Compilation films etcetera, I could go on forever.
Without removing the element of mystery too much from yourself, who exactly are you?
Well, I think that when I was a teenager, I was probably a typical Goth. I was obsessed with death and I would cut myself to avoid thinking about it. And the cutting kept escalating and escalating just like any other addiction. Ironically this coping mechanism, which I was using to deal with death, started to become self-destructive in and of itself. And so, in retrospect, it does seem like I was going down a nihilistic and potentially dangerous path.
What really saved me was reading a book called “The Fabric of Reality” by David Deutsch and then reading a book that he referenced called “Physics of Immortality” by the mathematical physicist Frank Tipler. Tipler’s book changed my life because he was a professional scientist – and former student of the legendary John Wheeler, he was explaining how death could be defeated through scientific means, and not only was he explaining how future generations could escape death, he was also explaining how people who have already died could be resurrected (with their memories and life experiences intact) inside a simulated VR timeline. So, these ideas completely blew me away — although now it seems like common currency since everyone from Elon Musk to Peter Thiel have echoed similar beliefs. But ever since reading “The Physics of Immortality” I’ve had a much more optimistic view of the world. I’m still filled with anger and violence, but I feel like the main problem — the problem of death — doesn’t seem so insurmountable any more. I guess it seems to me that if Goths are going to complain so much about death they should be just as vocal and just as enthusiastic when a potential solution to death is put on the table and so that’s kind of where I am at this moment. Side Note: One of things that I am most proud of is that White Gardenia is featured on the main page of Frank Tipler’s personal website – including links to two interviews that I did back in 2016 and 2018: franktipler.com/s-james-gates-refuses-give-string-theory-1-chance-it-simulation
Moving away from your past and the now, where is White Gardenia heading? Do you feel that to reach your endgame you will need to go all the way? GG Allin wished to die on stage, but he passed a different way of course, so when the last creation arrives, what do you think it will be?
Like I say, I am completely opposed to death. But White Gardenia will continue to explore pain and violence through increasingly intense frames of reference. The only difference is I think that going forward, the films I make will be more violent and less pornographic. When Trump got elected, it brought this strange kind of energy (“Hefnerian Conservatism” to quote Russ Douthat). It was almost like a post-morality form of Christianity, but I think that energy is gone now. I don’t think that people should feel guilty for looking at bondage porn or S&M because again these are coping mechanisms, but for me personally, I’ve kind of lost interest. Of course, I still want Cherokee and Allison to be involved but with less focus on the sexuality and more focus on the violence.
For someone who’s just discovered you via XXX Dark Web or Vore Gore and are fascinated, what would you recommend for them to view next and how can they find your other works?
Well, let’s see, many of White Gardenia’s short films can be viewed at our Film Freeway web profile here: filmfreeway.com/danielvalient
You can also follow us here on Pinterest if you’d like: pinterest.co.uk/whitegardenia1955
And a lot of our more “adult” clips can be seen here at our XVideos page: xvideos.com/profiles/white_gardenia
And if anyone would like to hear my thought on death and hell, here is an incredibly long (some would say boring) essay on why I consider myself to be a Christian: whitegardeniamusic.wordpress.com/2016/11/05/the-new-nihilism-an-autobiographical-essay-by-daniel-valiant
Also, the great horror writer Magnus Blomdahl has done some extensive interviews with me that will appear in his forthcoming book “True Porn” which will also feature Mikel Balerdi and some other big names from the world of experimental horror.
My friend, It has been a pleasure talking. I hope your dark star rises more and more, and I hope you don’t get blinded by show business. I can’t imagine you appearing on a national talent show dressed in bright clothes with loud pop music playing whilst you slice another finger off, but you never know.
Oh, thanks a lot, Jay. Thanks for being interested in White Gardenia. I love Severed Cinema and the topics and films that you guys cover. I think SC is easily one of the best horror sites out there.
